New Guy..

Discussion in 'Browning Superposed Shotgun' started by DaveM, Oct 25, 2023.

  1. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Hoping someone can answer a question about a 68 superposed. Did Browning ever make a Grade 1 Model in
    Stainless or in the white? It is a salt gun for sure as I have seen part of the letter from Browning gunsmiths of Arnold saying new wood furniture grade stock forearm. I have never seen a Grade 1 with Stainless receiver.
  2. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    welcome sir, I cannot answer the question, but someone here can. Thanks for joining.
  3. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Thank you very much.
    Ranger6 likes this.
  4. Bill Idaho

    Bill Idaho .270 WIN

    Southwest Idaho and formerly from the south side of Chicago says Hi and welcome! Good people here, zero drama, and a tonne of information.
  5. Auzzie

    Auzzie 20g

    Only variation I have seen to grade 1 is a colour case hardened receiver. They call it an A2 here and generally has 32” barrels as standard. They are not often seen and probably a world market FN item.
  6. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Thank you for the reply. I ask the seller to send me a set of photos. Barrel addressing markings and the like. Have seen nothing so pretty much tells me all
    his advertisement is not up to snuff.
  7. Auzzie

    Auzzie 20g

    You will find a nice Superposed for you out there somewhere. If you read and study lot of the Superposed posts on here and SGW you can certainly improve your knowledge and be in a much better situation to identify that elusive and attractive one that needs a new home .
  8. Anatidae

    Anatidae .270 WIN

    Being a salt era gun with new wood from Arnold service invoice, I suspect it is actually a silver nitrite finished receiver which is sometimes used to mask a multitude of sins.

    Ask for photos of the frame (tang extensions), internal mechanisms, and exterior of the forearm latch housing (wood removed to view both areas). Most-often, even the most popular ‘restoration’ specialists will not blast and fill ‘pitted’ unexposed surfaces (i.e., behind the wood) that have been affected by exposure to salt wood. They’ll just try to arrest the condition and slap another piece of wood on it.

    Browning-Arnold, MO would address the pitting correctly if done under the original owner’s warranty. Otherwise, the high cost of a proper restoration would exceed the value of the gun.

    caveat emptor - ‘creative’ marketing = taking advantage of gullible buyers’ ignorance. Let the gun and photos speak for themselves. The more explanation required about a item, the more opportunity there is for ‘creative’ embellishment, which usually shows the seller’s skill (or lack, thereof) at being blatantly dishonest, or his own ignorance about what he’s selling. He could just be repeating what he was told by someone more ‘skilled’ than he is.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2023
  9. Auzzie

    Auzzie 20g

    There is some good advice to follow so you don’t get burnt and words of wisdom from somebody who knows exactly what’s involved and what questions to ask.
    Anatidae likes this.
  10. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Thank you Anatidae and Auzzie it seems you both hit on something with this seller. First answering question then after wanting details of salt damage restoration asking for broken down internal pics silence. Not even a sorry we already sold it not a peep.
    I do have good new though. I purchased my VERY FIRST Superposed last night and she is a beauty. It is a V73 Model 26" Barrels Mod I/C FNLT.
    Not a mark on it. All serial numbers match barrel markings are correct wood is almost perfect nice grain satin. I have several Citori's but this is my first Superposed
    KyBoB likes this.
  11. Anatidae

    Anatidae .270 WIN

    Obviously you weren’t the type buyer that seller was hoping to find (the less-than 1%). Glad you feel like our comments were helpful. It makes the effort worthwhile.

    Congratulations on the V73. You will come to appreciate the design and level of craftsmanship and finish. They CAN be fairly addictive, also.
  12. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Oh yes addictive is the word I understand when it comes to Brownings. Started with the A5s and moved to the Citoris and now on to the Superposed. Now begins the lets see how much overtime I can bank to build back the fund. Hopefully will not drive you guys crazy with questions on the next hopeful purchase. Would like to find a really nice 62-64 RKLT will wait for just the right one that reaches out and talks to you. If you know what I mean.
  13. Auzzie

    Auzzie 20g

    Asking is cheap in comparison to getting burned by the unscrupulous. They are certainly out there in the Superposed world too. Nice that you have joined the ranks of the 1 percent that asks the right questions.
  14. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Good evening guys. Back with a couple of questions. It is my understanding that there should be a serial number stamped under the butt plate into the wood of all Superposed
    matching all other serial numbers. Looking at a 65 RKLT 95+ gun. All serial numbers and barrel markings match up wood is almost perfect butt plate is also perfect choked for mod/full. No serial number in stock butt. There is what looks like a proof stamp that seems to be a M with a 5 but no serial number. This concerns me even though the grain and finish of the stock and forearm match. Seller explains he has a 65 in his private collection that does not have a serial number stamp either. Thoughts
  15. Anatidae

    Anatidae .270 WIN

    In reverse order:

    Seller may or may not know what he's talking about. You have to establish and assign credibility to sources over time based on accuracy and consistency - and not by their ability to sound convincing.

    Buzz words: The word ' collection' implies that a seller is knowledgeable enough to have valued an item as 'collector' quality (to him) - but doesn't necessarily mean it IS. The term is often mis-used to try to add some measure of credibility implying all collectors are knowledgeable of the details and production history. Not all collectors 'are', either. This seller may be knowledgeable enough to recognize what he believes is a factory standard of quality and has enough experience to know that stocks are typically 'factory-stamped' in the trigger guard inlet. Others just 'think' (or want you to believe) what they know is factual. Be aware of the 'buzz' words. You're asking the right questions.

    In my experience the serial number is 'factory-stamped' inside the barrel channel of the forearm and in the trigger guard inlet ONLY. I've owned 35 Superposed (only 6 Gr I's) and have inspected at least that many more to confirm 'questions' like this - and the ones that I have confirmed to be all original and unmolested are only stamped in the inlet of the butt stock.

    Not to put you on the spot nor embarrass you - I've made plenty of mistakes - all part of my continuing education. But, I'm interested to know where or how you came to the understanding that butt stocks of all Superposed are stamped in the butt. What is your source for that, in other words? I could stand to learn something if I'm wrong.

    The Superposed examples that I questioned originality of wood or wood finishes (in particular) had a stamped serial number in the inlet and serial number stamped in the butt and sn written on the butt plate or recoil pad (surface that contacts the butt). I am under the impression these are replacement stocks or have been re-finished in a facility that has enough work at one time - that would require labeling of the plate or recoil pad for pairing with its stock after the finishes dried.

    Why do 'they' stamp the butt when the inlet already has a serial number stamped in it? Maybe their drying rack is a row of angled dowels that they slip the stock on (through the draw bolt hole), hanging free of contact with other stocks - and a stamp 'in' the butt is more visible. Who knows?

    Also, keep in mind - stamps can be duplicated.

    The question is a good one. We all want the best value for our dollar and don't want to pay top dollar for an example that we can't determine as original or re-done. Don't be afraid to make a mistake. What's $300-$500 difference either way, on a $2000 (avg.) Gr I 12ga Superposed? Otherwise, it's just part of the learning curve.

    Here's another question.........How can you tell if the stamp in the inlet is factory, or duplicated by a re-stocker? At that point, you have to assess period-correctness of wood grain, finishes and checkering. If it looks 'right' based on your current understanding of the details and history - buy it! If something doesn't look right, it probably isn't. Just make a note and keep looking.

    It's a 'process'. That's why I say there's a gun out there for everyone - based on their (buyers' AND sellers') knowledge and experience. Keep at it.

    What's on your 'wish list' right now - or have you established any specific 'areas of interest'?

    Happy Hunting!
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023
    Auzzie likes this.
  16. Auzzie

    Auzzie 20g

    Very well said.
    This is where getting to study examples along the way that you know to be historic positively “one owner” or maintained in a family holding since day one new. They can be the invaluable ones to take notes and learn from.
    Anatidae likes this.
  17. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Was looking forward to your reply Anatidae. I always learn something from what you have to say. I was not aware as I am relatively new to Superposed and am as you may say learning as I go. I have looked at several with most of them having a serial number stamp under the horn/plastic butt plate into the stock as well as in the barrel channel and of course under the release lever.
    To answer your question about the serial number stamp, it was more of an assumption as well as the few people I had asked led me to that direction. Then by seeing the samples I have looked at most did. Which led me to believe if there was not a serial number there then probably not original wood. As I mentioned a few posts back the V73 I purchased had
    serial number stamped in stock butt. After reading you reply I never really looked at it as you put it. Thank you it made me rethink a few things.

    Agree with your learning curve theory just not too many curves in the road. I really need to find Ned Schwings bible soon will recoup purchase price quickly I believe.
    I am a smaller gauge gun person. Every Browning I have is 20ga or below except for 1 Sweet 16 A-5. I would really like to put together a nice all original 20 28 410 RKLT
    set and if I have enough time and money a Near Mint Midas Grade 20ga RNLT.

    Thank you for taking the time to reply and help me. It is much appreciated.
    Auzzie and Anatidae like this.
  18. DaveM

    DaveM .22LR

    Just to let you know I purchased a copy of Ned Schwings book The Browning Superposed tonight. It was not too bad found a new leather bound copy for 250 dollars.
    Auzzie and Anatidae like this.
  19. Anatidae

    Anatidae .270 WIN

    Great! Congratulations.

    And it is My pleasure to share my thoughts - thanks for your interest and acknowledgement.

  20. Oh copy of Schwing's came with the two Superposeds from my FIL. I had no idea they were as precious as that. Leather bound...? Very nice!

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