Hello everyone and greetings from the UK! I have been researching A5's for a while and this weekend took the plunge and purchased a nice old example. Its a Belgian FN made 12G standard model serial starts with "15" so I think from my research is made around 1930. Overall its in pretty good condition for its age the barrel doesn't share the same serial so I am guessing its been replaced its ribbed and the bore is absolutely immaculate. I was looking at another one, much later 1954 with some nice engraving, however the bore was totally shot, very badly corroded although the receiver was cosmetically very good the bolt showed signs of rust. I steered clear and bought the older one, and actually had a chance of firing out back at the gunshop. We used some 28 and 32G loads and it fired and ejected fine however failed to feed the second round properly. As I was offered it at a low price, under 100 UK pounds I took a risk and bought it figuring I could spend some money and get the springs all changed and strip and deep clean it before I start to investigate a more serious fault. I have replaced the mag spring with a new one and will order a new friction ring set and recoil spring and see how she goes after that. One thing is bugging me though and I am hoping someone can chime in with some guidance. My gun has the single piece carrier (so no speedload) and if I hold down the carrier release button and depress the carrier and then release the button (with carrier still in the upper position) it remains raised. When I depress the carrier release button is snaps back down all of this happens with the bolt closed or open. I cant seem to find anything on the internet to suggest that this is normal behavior and wanted to ask for some opinions. I have setup the friction rings as per the manual for light loads by the way, however the recoil spring is what came with the gun so I have no idea how old it i but it measures 8.25 inches. Anyway very much looking forward to participating on this forum and grateful for any advice... Some pics of the old girl!
As far as your A5 question...I will have to defer to the knowledgeable experts here on the forum. Standby...
Interesting mystery. I don't know what is up with your shotgun, but I would guess that someone made some modifications. With the bolt open, the carrier should be spring-loaded up, because the carrier dog spring is more powerful than the carrier spring. Pushing the carrier release button in this condition should close the bolt and flip the carrier up. With the bolt closed, the carrier is spring-loaded down, and it should return there as soon as you stop pushing it. My guess is that your gun was modified to ease loading, as it can be awkward to hold the release button while feeding shells into the magazine. I have heard of after market parts that do something like you describe. If I recall correctly, a 2-piece carrier button was involved. I believe this mod came from Germany prior to WWI. Your after-market stock looks German to me also.
According to the Field Service Manual, your recoil spring should be 9.25 inches long. You should replace it, but since parts in the UK are hard to come by, you can get by with it if you limit yourself to target loads. Use the heavy setting of the friction ring if the gun will cycle that way. The action spring is also critical to reliable operation. This is the bolt return spring and is located in a tube accessible with the butt stock removed. Clean out the tube too as crud in there will hamper operations. Download the FSM, available here: http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/browning-auto-5-field-service-manual The spring lengths are listed at the end.
Ok, I think I have worked out the problem! Thanks to Rudolph and everyone else who have helped me out so far. When the carrier is depressed (as one would to load the gun) and with the carrier release button depressed the spring on the carrier latch is pretty flush to the receiver at the rear. However if the button is released with carrier still depressed upwards then the tension on the spring is released slightly. This is causing the left side of the carrier to foul slightly on the spring stopping it from returning under spring pressure from the carrier spring. I cleaned the area as best I could add added a thin film of Tetra gun grease and the problem was improved, but not cured. So I think that perhaps the carrier spring is weak, there is a problem with the carrier latch or the carrier itself is misaligned slightly. It looks to me that this is partly normal as from what I can see the carrier latch stops the carrier from being depressed until the button is pushed, as with all older guns without speedload capability like mine. I think i'll start by cleaning and stripping the gun, replacing the action and carrier spring and see how she does after that. Hope this makes sense and as always grateful for any further advice.
Glad you've got it figured out. You'll need very thin bladed screwdrivers to take your Auto-5 apart. They deliberately made the slots thin to discourage people from working on their own guns. Midway-UK may have them. I'd also suggest watching the videos offered by Art's Gun Shop, Midway, and Brownell's. Good luck.
Thanks I will get some ordered. Regarding the removal of the carrier latch, I note from the service manual that earlier guns use a screw rather than a roll pin. I am guessing mine falls in the older category as I believe it to have been made in the 1930's. The manual states a screw size of 2.28mm can anyone provide any advice on the size and type of screwdriver needed to remove it please? After 80 odd years I have a feeling that the tiny screw is going to be tough to remove might even need drilling out, but we'll see.
I think 1958 was the year they made the switch to roll pins, along with several other changes. The screw can be removed with a jewler's screwdriver. You might want to use some penetrating oil first. Drilling it out might be difficult as it resides in a blind hole. In guns that have roll pins the hole is drilled through, so a corroded pin can be punched out. According to Art's video, the downside to using pins is that it's easy to destroy your carrier latch trying to reinstall. So far I have avoided removing the small receiver parts on my Auto-5's. But Kumpe has done it extensively. Maybe he will chime in...
Thanks Rudolph31, look forward to hearing from Kumpe I have been reading his posts on restoring his A5. The gun laws in Sweden seem even tougher than the UK and thats saying something! Thought I would post a pic, noticed that the bottom of the receiver has a little dent on it shown by the green arrow. I dont think it looks like it should cause any issues and looks superficial. The red arrow shows where the feed latch or loading gate is hanging up on the carrier latch. You can see the carrier latch sitting proud of the receiver which I believe to be normal as one needs to depress the button to move it flush. Its just that on mine it still seems to sit slightly proud causing the hangup.
Your feed latch/loading gate is called the Carrier, hence the Carrier Latch! The dent the blue arrow is pointing at is nothing. The red arrow is pointing at what looks to me to be a normal Carrier Latch, although I don't have an Auto-5 available at the moment. If the Latch is binding on the Carrier you should be able to tell. It will be easier to investigate if the Trigger Plate is removed. You should know that the Carrier Latch works in a See-Saw fashion, flush at the front and proud in the rear until the button is pushed or is tripped by a shell from the magazine. When tripped, the positions are reversed and the front serves as a cartridge stop to keep the remaining shells in the magazine. It's a thin piece of metal and easily bent, or broken...
To remove my carrier latch I use a small screwdriver from an electronics/precision screwdriver set similar to this; http://screwdrivers.ga/mini-sized-p...t-excellent-quality-and-extremely-useful-set/ I've completely disassembled both of my Auto-5s receivers down to the smallest components. Both of my guns were made in the late 20's and the small screws came loose without any problems, all of them. So give it a try, it might be easier than you think! Hope you figure out what's up with your carrier/carrier latch, I will certainly follow this thread to learn more about this. Will chime in if I have anything useful to add but I don't at the moment. Nice gun by the way!
It looks to me like the bottom left side of the carrier is slightly worn. I wonder if the carrier itself is misaligned I'll look at the process in the field manual and maybe think about a very fine file to level it off slightly. I am taking it my friends machine shop next Friday and he has lots of A5 experience so hopefully all should be well after that!
