Browning St. Louis MO., Belgium unmarked Sweet 16

Discussion in 'Browning Auto A-5' started by greatwhite12, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. greatwhite12

    greatwhite12 Copper BB

    I need some help learning any info, history and potential value about a vintage Browning Shotgun. I estimate overall condition at very good with finish estimated around 90% however I’ll appreciate you guy’s feedback to get a more accurate idea of finish, condition.

    information:

    Gun has the lightened features of a Sweet 16 model however there is no “Sweet 16” identification.
    1. Barrel ring has 3 drilled holes
    2. Inside of receiver sides are milled half moon cutouts
    3. Trigger and safety has golden/bronze appearance

    Receiver:
    Safety is located in front of trigger
    Serial# X116xx

    Left side:
    Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo.
    Browning
    Trade Mark

    Barrel:
    Barrel 16GA 28” overall length, (25.5” end to chamber), 2 3/4” *** (*** = Cylinder Bore right?)
    Plain Barrel, bead front sight, matched ss#: X11690
    Barrel ring has 3 drilled holes
    Magazine plug: Black plastic with imprinted “Made in Japan”
    The magazine capacity with the plug in holds only 2 rounds (3 shot gun?)

    Barrel Markings:
    Left side barrel: *** SPECIAL STEEL -16 GAUGE SHELLS 2 3/4
    O (or maybe reversed “D”, Kg 757, sideways “3” and A-/F, lion symbol w/ P.V, Crown symbol over ellipse w/ ELG and star inside, ellipse w/ “16-70”
    Right side barrel: Made in Belgium

    Stock and forend:
    Overall condition very good, no cracks or major dings. Butt stock has some darkening near receiver on right side from handing and oils. Butt plate is original.

    Full detailed photo documentation available.

    I test fired this gun at the range, 2-3 shots using Winchester Super X Mark 5 16 GA shells. It cycled fine but kicked like a 12 GA! I checked the seal configuration and it appeared correct for standard high brass. I’m thinking maybe a spring kit is in order? If so, exactly which seals and springs should be replaced?
    Should I buy a complete spring kit?
    Or should this gun be left alone completely original as a collectable?

    Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry for the long post.
    JW

    Attached Files:

  2. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Welcome to the Browning Owners Forum greatwhite12 !!

    Very nice looking firearm...
  3. Billythekid

    Billythekid Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Welcome to the Browning Owners Forum.

    As far as trying to figure out more informatin on your Browning A5: Trying to date the old Browning A5, most people will tell you that it is a bit of a guess. Given that serial number X that would indicate it is pre-1953 and 11690 would suggest it is likely a 1947 manufacture date. The FN produced A-5 barrels in St. Louis from 1930 through 1958.. The Gold plated triggers and the 3 drilled holes on the barrel ring are unique to the sweet sixteen. So it seems that you have a sweet sixteen that was produced around 1947, the A5 seems to be in great shape for its age. hope that helps.

    BTK
  4. greatwhite12

    greatwhite12 Copper BB

    Thank you - yes you answered an important question, that it is indeed considered a sweet 16 even though the title isn't there. Ive admired these since I was a boy so it's kinda growing on me. Thanks for responding.
  5. greatwhite12

    greatwhite12 Copper BB

    Here's an update. I contacted Browning on identification. The Browning historian dug into archives and found that it is indeed a Sweet 16 w/ cylinder bore barrel - the oldest he has looked up. It was delivered July 18, 1947 and sold for $93.33. He could not answer why it was not marked properly as a Sweet 16 only that it is a very unusual case. I applied for an official letter stating their records.

    Thanks guys for your help.
  6. Billythekid

    Billythekid Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    thats great to hear and im glad that browning could help confirm that it was a sweet sixteen as well.
  7. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Welcome to the Browning Owners Forum greatwhite12 !!
  8. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Welcome to the Browning Owners Forum nhetzer !!
  9. Setters4life

    Setters4life .270 WIN

    These unmarked Sixteen's with the proper lightning cuts were also known by the nicknames "Stealth" or "Ghost" Sixteens. These are actually rare and while some people buy them for the same price as a Sweet Sixteen, they have more collector value because they are a rare bird. Just an FYI -
  10. greatwhite12

    greatwhite12 Copper BB

    Thanks for that info. I have to believe that as well. I would be interested to know about how many of the unmarked sweets were made before they were factory named.

    I have read that the safety location of the early models (front of trigger guard) were not as desirable as later design - but I actually like the safety up front since it works equally for both left and right hand shooters.
  11. Billythekid

    Billythekid Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    sounds like you own an interesting piece of Browning history...

    BTK
  12. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Very interesting indeed...
  13. Setters4life

    Setters4life .270 WIN

    I started shooting my Dad's Sweet-Sixteen when I was 15 on grouse and quail. I got used to the forward-safety and never found it to be a problem. I actually grew to like it over the years.

    Your early A5 does not have the speed-loading feature, which was added in 1953/1954.
  14. hackney317

    hackney317 Copper BB

    I think I may have the same type of 16 from what I can find out. Here's the info on the gun along with some info.

    Browning A5 16 gauge (sweet 16 ?)
    Ser#117841 on reciever and barrel
    full choke vent rib
    2 9/16 chamber
    Recoil pad
    manufactured 1938

    Not marked sweet 16
    3 holes in barrel ring
    Trigger is light colored metal not blued, not dark gold
    Possibly one of the sweet 16's that were not marked as such. ( stealth or ghost 16 )
    Anyone think I might be on the right track?
    Thanks
  15. txrick55

    txrick55 .22LR

    Browning manufactured a lightened version of the standard weight 16 ga and was listed in their catalog as the Sweet Sixteen in 1937, the model was test marketed in 1936 and was so well received it went into production the following year.
    These guns sported a gold plated trigger & trigger guard safety, as well as the receiver cuts on both sides of the loading ports & the 3 hole barrel ring. Original guns will have the stock hollowed out also. Browning production guns did not start to have the receiver engraved with "Sweet Sixteen" until 1948. So it is quite possible to have a Stealth sweet produced for those years.
  16. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    The unmarked Sweet Sixteens were produced for 11 years, 1937-47. There are unmarked Light Twelves that were produced for only 2 years, 1946-47. That makes them much rarer, but no one seems interested in collecting them--except me...
  17. txrick55

    txrick55 .22LR

    On Stealth Sweets the gold plated triggers & trigger guard safeties were original from the factory, but many owners back in the day considered any gold on a working gun was a bit over the top and had them blued at their first opportunity. Later many owners decided blued triggers should be replaced with gold plated ones. Barrels, stocks & many parts could have been replaced over the years.

    If the gun is all original and assembled 1923 to 1951 the barrel, stock, and receiver will all be stamped with the same serial number. The bolt, and receiver screws will be stamped with the last four digits of the gun serial number.

    The surest way to tell if it's a Stealth Sweet ( lightened version) is the mill cuts in the loading port of the receiver.
    Stealth sweet ( lightened version)
    Side view
    [​IMG]
    Bottom view
    [​IMG]

    Standard weight receiver ( no mill cuts)
    [​IMG]

    I own both a Standard weight and Sweet 16 both from 1955.
    The difference in weight & handling of both is hardly noticeable, so for the price you can't go wrong with a standard weight.
    Rudolph31 likes this.
  18. Billythekid

    Billythekid Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    thanks for the info txrick!! appreciate the insight. from the pics it looks like the 2 sweet 16 are in pretty nice condition, how long have you have owned them?
  19. txrick55

    txrick55 .22LR

    The 55 Standard weight ( 3rd pic) I purchased three years ago, it came with a plain 28in mod barrel, and I was able to procure the same vintage plain 28 in cylinder barrel. I got it for a steal as Standards do not command the price sweets do, the bluing is in excellent shape, and no cracks in the fore end.
    The stock has a bit of tiger grain showing BUT it has one of those pesky recoil pads, the LOP is still 14 1/4 with the pad, makes for a sweet shooter.
    55 Std wt.
    [​IMG]

    The 55 Sweet is a real gem, very well taken care of. Purchased it four years ago. Definitely my baby !!
    Nice red tone to the wood, came with a plain 28 in mod barrel, no cracks in the fore end and as you can see a bit of tiger grain, the stock is uncut and is sporting the original butt plate.
    55 Sweet
    [​IMG]

    I also own a 66 Sweet I purchased 5 years ago. This is my range gun !!
    I was at a local gun show and perused every table, took the better part of Saturday, had this one spotted. Went back Sunday afternoon & it was still there. Excellent figure on the stock, again one of those pesky recoil pads, two 26 in ribbed barrels, one mod, one cylinder. No cracks in the fore end. Plenty of gold plating on the trigger, and the bolt face looked as though it had hardly been shot at all.
    All bluing is perfect, not even rub marks on the barrel from the fore end.
    Well we dickered for over an hour ( Well THAT and I believe my wife's low cut top was working on all five gentlemen behind the table) We made quite a deal and I brought it home sporting a new browning case purchased a table or two over. He was an excellent man to do business with !!
    66 Sweet
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  20. Billythekid

    Billythekid Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Wow, those 2 are great finds. Love the wood pattern on the 55.

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