Hi from Colorado!

Hi.
Thank you for letting me join!

I posted the same question in another forum unfortunately did not get a response in time so now I own This pistol hopefully I did Not make a mistake and bought a fake one. Here it is. Pleas help me figure out this pistol.
I did take few shots and it is super tight and accurate. Shot this piece of an old clarinet from about 15 feet.

But my question is about the pistol is this a real or a fake or a put together gun. Here are some picks of the gun. There are no numbers on the barrel.















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Mistake? Well it looks utilitarian...as a military pistol should, apparently it shoots well for your musical purposes and it sounds as if YOU like it .

With that said; it is a "Parts Gun". The frame...and hence the pistol (by law), is a Browning High Power produced by FN of Belgium in 1985, the ring hammer is a post production replacement not original to that frame...as is the barrel. The slide came from a Browning Automatic Pistol No2/MkI* produced by Inglis of Canada in 1944/45.

If it proves reliable/service accurate then the proper vintage parts were chosen as; 1) FN BHPs are "metric" while the Inglis BAPs are "inch" as converted from "metric"...though most parts fit well AND 2) some wartime...both FN and Inglis, parts are not compatible with post-war FN...and "other" production. This is particularly true of the barrel/cam. Most evident is the Inglis BAPs use the original FN internal extractor v. the post 1962 FN design external extractor...the difference there is the "modern" external extractor is easily and inexpensively replaced while the original internal extractor is often difficult to obtain and costly when it is found.

Hope that helps …..

Thanks kind of what I thought


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UR most welcome …..

I notice that the frame is stamped “GPC WEST HURLEY, NY”. That is Gun Parts Corporation, also known as Numrich Arms. I wonder if they put this pistol together from their vast collection of parts.

Is it clarinet season already?

^^^^^^

Hi MC, howyadoin?


I noticed the import stamp as well R31, and though I've bought fairly often from GPC over the years, I've only ever bought small parts etc. and wasn't aware they...obviously at some point, imported firearms .

^^Doing, fine, sub-moa. Looking for a gunsmith in the SoCal area. You know of one?

Where's the "R31"? I can't find it in the pics above.

R31 is right here...

Sub-moa,

I don’t think that is an import mark, as there’s no “Made in Belgium” next to it. But at one point Numrich was making guns as Auto Ordnance Corporation. My first 1911 was one of theirs. They also made full auto Thompsons until Congress pulled the rug out from under them in 1986. So it’s very possible that they also assembled High Powers for a while.

I read of your trials and tribulations MC, sorry you had that negative experience. Not that is matters because it's 100% to you, but your experience IS rare with that particular smith. At very least he did the right thing by giving you a full refund. I hope his...apparently severe, family medical issues work out as best they can and he returns to his normal "great guy/great smith" operation. Unfortunately, my custom BHPs are all from the usual names...none of which are in SoCal , sorry . Good luck though .

WADR my friend, import mark requirements as applied to the frame of surplus BHPs of late...in fact going back at least a dozen years, have been liberally construed by most importers...apparently without consequences. Import marks found on various surplus BHPs...most frequently sourced from Israel, normally include the importers initials, city and state; such as with OP's pistol or those imported by the likes of NHC CO SAC, CA and NHM CO SAC, CA (old Sacramento Armory) or C.A.I Georgia, VT (Century Arms). Sometimes just "HP"...for High Power, is added as with TGI KNOX TN HP. Sometimes they go hog wild as with Mach1 Knoxville TN by adding "FN HP/GP" or PW ARMS REDMOND WA by adding "HI-POWER 9X19MM" but rarely...if ever, does one find "Made in Belgium" except as applied to the slide by FN themselves.

Perhaps we're talking apples/oranges; I'm aware of the Auto Ordnance/Numrich nexus, but I was speaking of surplus BHPs particularly those put together from different parts...such as OP's pistol, not original production such as the TSGs and 1911s Auto Ordnance produced. If GPC "assembled High Powers", it would have been through the use of the collection of surplus parts they accumulated added to a surplus FN frame.

A complicated situation for me, as I was one who had sung his praises in the past. Then, a forum member took it upon himself to get involved, in the thread and behind the scenes. There's more to the story. We could talk about it by backchannel if you like.

Got it.

I stand corrected, but since we’re talking parts pistols, it’s possible that they were were assembled by one of the largest suppliers of parts. Does it sound likely that they were imported with Belgian frames and Canadian slides? It occurs to me that GPC both imported the frames and assembled the guns.

Oh , I did notice you got pretty quiet once it started , sorry to hear it went sideways. I don't have a need to know details MC and won't pry, but if you need to vent you can PM me over there.

It certainly could have been either way my friend; 1) GPC might have imported a 1985 FN BHP as a complete surplus pistol only to discover there were issues with the original slide/barrel so THEY rebuilt it with Inglis...and other parts, they had on hand. The fact that the simple import mark on the frame combined with an original FN slide legend would satisfy the USG...even if they were looking hard, gives credence to this possibility. 2) They might have imported just the surplus 1985 FN frame and then built OPs pistol with parts on hand, least likely IMHO because; a. Virtually all surplus imports were complete pistols and b. 1985 FN frames have only SNs and other factory production marks but no other identifiers...see above. 3) Most likely...IMHO; they might have imported OP's FN BHP/Inglis BAP as it appears now. Such surplus parts pistols were definitively not unheard of...in fact parts pistols of varying configurations were downright common as the Israelis neared the end of their inventory. Combining a replacement (un-SN'd) 1944/45 Inglis slide with an unmarked post 1950 design barrel on a 1985 FN frame is an end of inventory kind of move . The Inglis/Canada slide legend, FN frame SN and import mark would have satisfied most any USG inspector who bothered to look...the fact that the slide legend and SN are incompatible would likely have gone over their heads. Who knows for sure though , all 3 are possible.....

What you say makes sense. It’s my understanding that Israel was a huge beneficiary of German WWII arms. That cache certainly could have contained captured Inglis High Powers. I’ve done a quick internet search and found no reference to GPC HP’s.

Pretty interesting conversation. From what I gathered it is totally conceivable that this pistol was born as we see it. And the military holster



PS.
Clarinets don’t stand a chance


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Had to have my lovely bride have a look at your post...just to prove to her someone once said I "made sense" . While Israel did receive a lot of German/Axis weapons, from my observations most of it was actually German/Axis v. WWII captured British. JMHO, but I'd imagine the few Inglis pistols the Israelis sold off as surplus years ago...very few as compared to the occupation P640b (BHP) pistols they sold, were more likely stolen/captured from the British Mandate forces during the run up to their War of Independence. I'd imagine even more Inglis pistols would have been captured from some of the Arab armies during the '48, '56 and '67 wars.

Thanks for the discussion ...

If by "born" you mean re-born, I'd agree …

Clarinets …

I stand corrected REBORN!


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Who ever put this gun together did an amazing job. It’s very accurate and easy to use. Added VZ grips.


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