Grandfathers A5 isn't going back together again...

Discussion in 'Browning Auto A-5' started by Brian Hayward, Jun 9, 2016.

  1. Brian Hayward

    Brian Hayward Copper BB

    Hello. I inherited my grandfathers Browning A5 12 Light after he passed away. Before I took possession of it my grandfather had it tore apart. I know he ordered new parts for it (I know that because the old parts are in the box too). I searched the web and found videos and schematics that would assist me in re-assembly. When it came time to re-assemble the barrel, it wouldn't fit. After looking closer I could see that the Breech Block was the problem. So I tore it all apart again and tried to fit the breech block into its home on the barrel and it wont fit. It looks like the Locking Block is the root of my problem. It will not allow the breech block to properly fit into the nook on the barrel. The Breech Block and Locking Block are the two parts that were not original parts. Does anybody know if I am assembling the parts incorrectly or do I need to source different parts (breech block and locking block) that will fit with the original barrel? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. If this topic has already been covered please provide me a link to the discussion. Thank you.

    Brian

    Attached Files:

  2. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Does it go together using the old parts? Unless your Auto-5 is over 100 years old, the new parts should pretty much drop in. Pictures would help.
  3. kumpe

    kumpe .410

    Don't know if this helps at all, but... Copied from MGW;

    "It is important to note that the A-5 has two different styles of Locking Block, the "Old Style" and the "New Style". The "New Style" Locking Block will only fit A-5's manufactured after 1958. If you have a pre 1958 A-5 and need to replace the Locking Block, it is necessary to replace the Breech Block, Locking Block, the Left Hand Extractor and Extractor Spring."

    How old is it?
    SHOOTER13 and Rudolph31 like this.
  4. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    True enough, but the OP stated that both the Breech Block and the Locking Block were being replaced. I believe these should fit all but the first few years Auto-5 production. The very early guns didn't have the "notch" in the barrel extension to accommodate a different Locking Block's "tail".

    [​IMG]

    I talk about this in the thread First Year Auto-5.
    kumpe likes this.
  5. kumpe

    kumpe .410

    I had no idea about that. Guess I should read that thread... :)
    But you might have to school me once more... I thought that the Light Twelve was a version that came into production later, not in the first years? And I also noticed that both the breech block and locking block latch were replaced. But the text I quoted also mentioned the extractor. AFAIK the breech block is mostly sold without any extractors or springs attached. If someone were to buy a new-style breech block and fit it with the extractors from the old one, it might cause problems.
    It's a far-fetched theory, I know, but I thought it could be worth mentioning.
    Rudolph31 likes this.
  6. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Hadn't thought about the extractor, you may be on to something. Also, I missed the part about his gun being a Light Twelve, they debuted in 1946. The only difference in a Light Twelve and the Standard model are lightening cuts in the receiver, lightening holes (or a shaped ring) in the barrel ring, and a hollowed butt stock. Mechanically, they're the same.

    As someone who has spent a lot of time with disassembled old Auto-5's, I think you'll appreciate the First Year thread. Feel free to add comments.
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  7. Brian Hayward

    Brian Hayward Copper BB

    Good afternoon Gents. Sorry for such a late reply. I have not had a chance to read through the thread Rudolph31 suggested. It is quite lengthy so I'm going to need to dedicate a chunk of time to pick through it. Anyway, i made a video which i think will better explain my situation. I created my first youtube video (i actually have publicly published work!!!). here is the link: . In the video you will see the newer Breech Lock and Locking Plate and how they (don't) fit into the barrel. I also show the viewer, when i remove the firing pin and the dowel pin that keeps the firing pin in the Breech Lock all the pieces fit as they are supposed to. Hope the video helps. Thanks again for all the comments.
  8. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I don't have the answer, but I do have some observations.

    The original narrow-rail Locking Block failed and since the new part has a beefed up rail, the Breech Block was replaced also. Hopefully the left extractor and spring were replaced also. This information is detailed here:

    http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/PROD/B1111256

    That the insertion of the Firing Pin and its Stop Pin is preventing lockup is a mystery. I can't see in the video just where it is binding, but I suspect it's the tail of the Locking Block. If inserted correctly, the Link engages the "ears" of the Firing Pin, retracting it when out of battery. It also restricts movement of the Locking Block. My best guess is that you have the wrong Firing Pin. I'd replace it.

    MGW lists them for $89 BUT if you look in their "Clearance " section, you can get one for $29. I bought one just to have a spare.

    http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/closeout-parts/B1111165C
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  9. Brian Hayward

    Brian Hayward Copper BB

    Sorry, I guess I didn't point it out in the video. If you watch from 1:17 to 1:43, when I insert the firing pin and the dowel pin that holds it in place you will see me work the Locking Plate back and forth. As i work it back and forth with the firing pin inserted, I hold the parts up so you can see how far into the Breech Lock the Locking Plate retracts. I also hold the parts up to show how far the Locking Plate retracts into the Breech Lock after I remove the firing pin and the dowel pin. On a side note, to my knowledge, I have the original firing pin that came with the shotgun. There is nothing that would indicate that it is different.

    I took a screen shot of the Locking Plate and how far the Locking Plate sticks up attached to this post. It isn't a lot, but it is enough to create the interference between the barrel and the Breech Lock. Hopefully that will provide more insight into my problem. I haven't been able to sit down and really dig into the history of the A5 yet, but I have not run across anything in the research I have done that indicates there may be a different style of firing pin for the 12 Gauge A5. The fact the original Breech Lock would not accept the new Locking Plate tells me that the parts I have may be incorrect or are mis-matched. I haven't looked at the serial number of this shotgun yet, so I don't know if it is pre 1958 or not. I will report back as soon as I get that information. Thanks.

    Attached Files:

  10. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I may have the answer. The Firing Pin Stop Pin must be inserted so that it fits inside the channel of the Firing Pin. In the video it looks like you've pushed the FP in too far and are putting the Stop Pin behind the channel. Since you're only partially inserting it you wouldn't know it's incorrect.

    Properly assembled, the Firing Pin should retract when the Link is moved from horizontal.
  11. Brian Hayward

    Brian Hayward Copper BB

    My camera angles didn't show it but I know that I installed the firing pin properly (if you look closely you can see that the firing pin was pushed too far forward and i pushed it back into the breech block before inserting the dowel pin) with the dowel pin fit between the channel of the firing pin.

    I've been searching ebay and I think i found some pre-1958 parts. I am going to purchase them so I can get everything back together again.
  12. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Do what you think is best. As I said before, the new parts should fit, provided they are all 12 gauge Browning parts. My suspicion is still on the firing pin, it may be for a 16 gauge or a Remington part.

    You may want to call Art's, they're the go-to Auto-5 gunsmiths and are very helpful. Using the correct terminology -- like you did in your original post -- will avoid misunderstandings.

    http://artsgunshop.com
  13. Brian Hayward

    Brian Hayward Copper BB

    Update: I did not buy the old style Breech Block or Locking Block. I kept the new style parts but I took a dremel to the firing pin and shaved some material from it (see pictures). Now the Locking Block retracts into the Breech Block properly and everything fits. I am not able to re-assemble everything yet since I do not have all the screws. I am searching ebay on a weekly basis and when I find the correct parts I will re-assemble and report back.

    Attached Files:

  14. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I'm pretty sure the "16" on your firing pin is a clue. But since you're making it fit, be sure it is retracted by the link when not in battery or you will have a machine gun on you hands.

    $29 will buy this:

    [​IMG]

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