Yes I agree about the recoil. Don’t think that’s it cause I have shot this gun a lot, as well as my other A5’s. This gun had no problems before adding the 2 piece carrier and new locking block latch. I can’t see how it isn’t related to one of these 2 things. New carrier will be here tomorrow from numrich. Maybe that will put some light on the matter. I’m still guessing it has something to do with before 1958.
I did look at my 50th anniversary light 12 and the carrier is identical to one from mwg. It’s a lot newer though. I have spent another couple hours tonight looking at everything. Seems like the front piece of 2 piece carrier is rubbing on right side of receiver. Will know tomorrow when new carrier get here.
Your picture did look like the Carrier was binding. MGW does say that parts need to be fitted by a gunsmith, but everything I’ve ever replaced has just “dropped in”. Hopefully your next Carrier will. I stand by my comment about guns that will only function with a round left in the mag. Oh, while you have the gun apart, make sure the Action Spring Tube is clean and the spring is the proper length.
You know I thought I replaced the recoil spring and action spring but I have been looking through my parts and can’t confirm or deny. Either way the gun was fine before 2 piece carrier,so if I haven’t I will, but don’t think that’s the problem now. I’m almost positive it’s the carrier binding. And yes mwg does say that fitting it required. Can’t get an answer out of them as to what that really requires. “Trade secret”. I get it though cause I work for commission and don’t like to give away info for free either. I’m not ready to give up just yet. You know what they say” every man should know his own limitations”.
They say that the skills you’ve obtained at the end of a project were the skills you needed to begin it.
Got different carrier from numrich yesterday. Very different from mwg. Both carriers bind in receiver. I decided to stick with the one from mwg. I started last night with a jeweler diamond file and hand fitted the carrier. This is a very tedious process I must admit. Remove a little( I do mean a little) put it back together and try it, and do it all again. After several hours of work I believe I have the right fit in the receiver, as far as width goes on the 2 piece carrier. The gun definitely cycles smoother. As you know when you change one thing it effects another, no different here either. Just when I was hoping to put it back together and fire it, I noticed that the carrier in my other A5’s had a very different feel and sound.
As I continued to inspect the carrier. I noticed the carrier was not sliding past the locking block latch in the “project” gun as it did the others causing the carrier to stay up in the ejection port(see pic of fired shell). On the other a5’s The carrier goes up and then when passing the locking block latch it snaps back down in place allowing the rest of the cycle to take place. It is really hard to observe all this at the speed of opening and closing the bolt under normal circumstances. If you slow it down and watch each piece as it interacts with the others it becomes very obvious as just how amazing JMB design really is.
I am guessing that among the various changes in the carrier, latch, and receiver in time has made this more difficult then a gun made after 1958. I will say that the new carrier had a slight ridge,in the area where it was binding on the receiver, that my other A5’s do not have. I don’t know if they were all hand fitted( Belgium made) or if the machine that made the new carrier was slightly out of spec. Either way I believe I am moving in the right direction. God only knows what will come with cross bolt safety.
That was a fired shell in your last photo? That makes no sense, for if so you’ve got a failure to eject, and the Carrier being up means the Latch was tripped but there is no new shell present to have tripped the Latch. It’s supposed to work like this: Before firing the Carrier is latched down, the gun fires and the Bolt and Barrel travel aft together, the Dog at the rear of the Carrier catches the Operating Handle and holds it back, the Bolt and Barrel move forward but the Bolt can only move about 1/4” against the Handle, thus retracting the Locking Block and freeing the Barrel to move forward into battery. The spent shell is ejected as the barrel moves past the port. If here are no more shells the Bolt remains locked open, but if there are, the next shell, which was being held by the Cartridge Stop (which was tripped by the returning Barrel), moves aft and when its rim hits the back of the Carrier Latch the Carrier, propelled by the powerful spring on the Dog moves up carrying the new shell into the path of the Bolt. The Carrier’s motion makes the Dog lose it’s hold on the Operating Handle and the Bolt flies forward into battery, ready to fire. Without the strong spring from the Dog holding it up, the Carrier is moved back down by the weaker Carrier Spring and latched there by the Carrier Latch.
Everything happens so fast, and often simultaneously, that it’s very hard to follow. I’ve removed the Recoil and Action Springs and moved the parts slowly by hand to see it work. And I’m also amazed at JMB’s genius. I’d advise you to have the cycle clearly in mind while you work on this project, as it looks like it’s close to turning to worms.
Yes that’s a fired shell. I didn’t see it happen but I was told bolt came back about half way and then it was just as picture was taken. Looks like a failure to eject to me also. Then the bolt went foward as if another shell was being loaded, because it was an empty hull, it wouldn’t go back in chamber. I think that you see in the picture is the carrier is up because it was binding inside receiver which has been corrected.
The locking block latch has to pass over the carrier before bolt is in battery. Just as that happens the carrier should fall back down allowing bolt to be in battery. If for any reason the carrier don’t fall then you have my picture. Not sure just yet how the profile of locking block latch is stopping carrier from dropping, but it is clearly getting stuck on bottom of carrier.
I fully expected many issues with this. I have a silver hunter that browning had 2 times for 2 months each and it still had problems. I have since then fixed its cycle issue and now it’s one of my best guns. It will function correctly, just have to work through the bugs.
OK, the Bolt only went halfway back, and the Carrier stayed up after delivering that shell because it was binding. Why didn't the Bolt go all the way back? Either a weak shell or the Link/Action Spring is causing problems. The Action Tube is prone to failure on early guns too. As for the Carrier fouling the Locking Block Latch, timing should prevent them from meeting, but the notch in the center of the Carrier should make them miss anyway.
Check that your Action Tube isn’t loose. Then clean it with a wire bore brush. Make sure the spring is serviceable and that the follower engages the Link.
As far as springs go they will be replaced as I do not remember if they were replaced. Don’t think the spring failed over night though. Remember that the locking block latch is different. I have 3 of them for the 2 piece carrier and they don’t match up. It’s not just a little different, but night and day. The timing should make them miss, however, if the carrier is binding or let’s say the locking block latch is sitting to high then timing goes out the window. If the design change from pre to post 1958 made the carrier a couple thousands thicker, there goes the timing cause now the locking block latch don’t operate correctly.
It might be that the locking block latch is hitting on the notch in the carrier. Looks like on my other A5’s that when it clears that notch the carrier falls back down. I don’t think that’s happening. I could be wrong as it was late last night but I will know more tonight.
Thinking about this, it still doesn’t make sense. In order for the Barrel and Bolt to unlock, they must travel all the way aft so the Dog can engage the Handle. And if the Carrier was jammed in the up position, that shouldn’t happen even if they did go all the way. Could be the Locking Block Latch isn’t latching the Locking Bolt. I’m at a loss. Glad I like to keep my guns original, though I do love Speed Load. Sometimes I simulate it by loading the mag, engaging the Cutt Off, and Locking the Bolt back. Flipping the Cut Off switch instantly chambers a shell.
Yes I am all for original too, however, prior injuries to my wrist just make it so much easier to shoot this thing on skeet field. If it were a hunting gun I would have left it alone. I haven’t shot it again after fitting carrier. I am solely going off operating the charge handle, what I see and experience with the gun. I am a perfectionist, so it will either work correctly or returned back to factory standard.
