My first Hi-power at age 67. Better late than never

I couldn't pass up the opportunity to get a Israeli Army or Police surplus 1960's manufacture Hi-power for just under $500 with shipping, FFL, and a 20 dollar fee for special select. I really shouldn't have spent the money but I've wanted a High-power for so many years and they are never going to priced much lower than this. And AIM surplus usually has the best condition guns for the lowest prices. I did the same thing last year and bought a really nice Greek Garand locally for $900 dollars and wished I'd got one in the 1980's when they were still $400 dollars

I really like mil-surp guns and have an Ithaca 1911A1 that is original on the outside but has NM barrel and a fitted and serial numbered NM bushing and a titanium firing pin and xtra power firing pin spring to make it drop-safe and it has a full set of Wolf springs and I carry it sometimes for defensive purposes. I also have a Viet nam era flap holster and web belt for it for hiking in the woods. I am non-combat Viet Nam vet so that holster means a lot to me. I also have always liked Brownings and have a nice 1971 Belgium SA-22 Semi Auto Grade I

I ordered the gun yesterday and it should arrive at my FFL holders by the end of the week. My FF holder is a gunsmith and the first thing that I'll do is have him remove the grip safety from the trigger and then I'll take it out an sshoot it and see if it needs further trigger work and will also order a set of wolf springs and an 18.5 pound recoil spring. I have a Glock 19 and a Keltec PF9 and Luger so I have plenty of ammo to try in it. I'm very curious as to what markings it will have and what grips and if it has a lanyard ring (I hope)

If it has the plastic/bakelite thumb rest grips I will replace them with plain checkered wood, whatever I can find on Ebay for the best price. Right now they also have some euro police holsters for it for a good price. That's the trouble with getting a new gun. You tend to go crazy buying accessories for you newest acquisition that it seems like you just can't live without them. I was going to spe3n the $500 on a mech-tech upper for my 10mm Glock, but like I said I couldn't pass this up.

Welcome to the Browning Owners Forum Borg !!

Post some pictures of that new Hi-Power when you finally get it...

That is an amazing price for what is, quite possibly, the finest handgun ever made. I paid a friend $380 for a 1969 Belgian-made Hi-Power 25 years ago and have never fired a better handgun. It fits, it points, and it shoots like no other, and I wouldn't trade it for a good woman. Mine has Pachmeyer rubber grips, and the silly magazine safety has been removed (if it ever had one). I carry a Sig, because I'm too little to conceal the Hi-Power, and because I feel that the Sig Sauer design and manufacturing quality standards carry on the traditions established by John Moses Browning, but if I were a larger man, I'd pack a Hi-Power over any other gun.

I hear you on buying accessories, btw. My preferred CCW gun is a Sig P938, and it has a dandy plastic holster, but the damned thing hangs on to the gun when I try to draw it quickly. I haven't found any source of fitted leather holsters for it yet, but I'm not done spending money on this excellent sidearm. Maybe a nice laser ...

Not quite 67 (only 66!) but also just bought my first Hi Power - a new-in-box job. I've been a Model of 1911-family devotee for several years and just decided I'd like to have one of JMB's last pistols (even if only partly JMB's). Only one range trip, so far, but I can tell that it's going to be one of my favorites!

Let's see some pictures of that Browning HP Hurryin' Hoosier !!

Not much to see. Just one of the new standard, blued, fixed-sight models. Nothing unique.

OK then...

I have two of those x-Israel HP's and I am thinking about carrying the 2nd of the two (Mark III).

Pictures please?
Steve

Didn't FIE make these?
Steve

A finished challenged Israeli I picked up some time back from SOG,
she shoots like a house afire.

After reblue


Steve

Yes no problems with that. IIRC, the Israeli HPs were made in Europe(CZ?).
Steve

Wikipedia, are you serious? That site lets anyone post often with erroneous info. Just register and post.
Steve

WADR to all, a bit of confusion appears to have found its way into this thread...IMHO that is . Again WADR, if I may:

Post #10: In referring to ITTR’s “x-Israel HP's” post (#7), Steve asks “Didn't FIE male (sic) these?”. Short answer: NO. "Ex-Israeli service BHP”s were mostly genuine FN manufactured BHPs…in most FN variations including Browning Arms marked and even the wartime “German” P640b, Hungarian FEG P9s with the many different common slide markings…including the FEG P9 based “Israeli” Kareen (see post re: Steve’s B 10363), the Canadian manufactured Inglis BHPs and probably about every other BHP version/clone/copy/counterfeit…but none were made by FIE. The Israelis probably had an Indonesian Pindad hiding somewhere in inventory .

Post #11: In referring to his pic of “A finished challenged Israeli…”, Steve offers what appears to be a common ex-Israeli service FEG P9 variant “BHP”. Steve's pistol is a well made copy of the FN BHP that mixes features of the Type 65 and Type 73 BHPs. Steve's pistol may be marked in any number of variations of "FEG/Hungary", or "Luger M80", or "Parabellum", or "PJK-9HP", yada yada yada, possibly "Kareen", or maybe even...an outright counterfeit, "Fabrique Nationale Herstal - Belgique", but it's still a basic FEG P9. Perhaps Steve will favor us with a pic of the port side of his pistol. Obviously Steve posted the pic of his pistol...after all no one else was posting pics , because the thread began and continued with discussion of "ex-Israeli service BHP"s, Steve’s FEG P9 IS an "ex-Israeli service BHP". BTW Steve, it's not finish challenged at all compared to many ex-Israeli service pistols , but it IS a good example of a common "ex-Israeli service BHP". The only negative...IMHO that is, is the dot matrix markings applied by the importer...particularly where they placed them .

Post #12: Quoting OPs Post #1, W1 states “Hi Borg! The Israeli version is called "Kareen". WADR…OP was referring to an “Israeli Army or Police surplus 1960's manufacture Hi-power”…which would be an FN manufactured BHP taken into Israeli service, and not a Kareen. The Kareen, an FEG P9 variant…initially manufactured in Hungary by FEG for the Israelis and subsequently assembled in Israel using FEG…and other, parts did not exist in the “1960s”.

Post #13: In correcting, Steve’s Post #10 “Didn't FIE male (sic) these?”, W1 focuses on FN manufactured BHPs where apparently Steve was referring to the “x-Israeli HP’s” mentioned in a previous post…see above. W1 then goes on to offer that the BHP “was designed by John Moses Browning”, and while my research leads me to dispute the “simplified” old saw “designed by JMB”, I’ll leave it there…a discussion for another time. The following allegation; “by the way FN was plagued with cracked barrels straight from the factory-can I prove this-No! see attached photo,found when researching cracked barrels discovered…” is just plain incorrect. The pictured “proof” is of an FN 2 piece barrel manufactured in ‘75. In fact, all FN factory barrels have been manufactured in that manner since the mid ‘60s.

Post #14: In response to W1’s previous post (#13), Steve suggests/queries “…the Israeli HPs were made in Europe(CZ?).”. As noted above, ex-Israeli service BHPs were produced by several manufacturers and came from a true multitude of sources…none were CZ though.

Posts #15 & 16: I agree wholeheartedly with Steve…Wiki is replete with errors.

Please note: The above responses are “direct” only for the sake of brevity, no disrespect intended.

Thanks for the grip link W1 .

You can't be convinced that's the joint of a 2 piece barrel?

Really? WADR my friend, it's my understanding an adamantly closed mind gathers little knowledge .

You don't think that's a pretty perfect "crack"?

And you believe this based upon..."you've heard"?

WADR once more, my observation was not based upon "I heard" .

Perhaps this will help you:

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WADR = With All Due Respect, a common forum expression used to soften a point of disagreement.

WADR W1, I honestly don't understand how you can ignore the obvious and insist the pic you posted is of a crack and not the joint of a 2 piece barrel. The pic I subsequently posted depicting the disassembled 2 piece barrel clearly shows the position of the joint is at the same exact point on the barrel as the pic you posted and claim is of a crack.. I'm truly at a loss .

This you can't ignore though:

I thought the pic of the barrel you posted showing what you insist is a crack looked familiar. A brief search and I found why the pic you posted was familiar. It was taken from Stephen Camp's Blog on hipowersandhandguns.com and...here's the kicker, it's the pic used to illustrate the article "Hi-Power Two-Piece Barrels".

Here's the link: http://hipowersandhandguns.com/TwoPieceBarrels.htm

A simple question, What does this have to do with a 67 year old man buying his first HP? Give this a rest, please, and let's all get back on topic?
Steve

Get back on topic?

What does erroneously injecting FIE into a discussion of OPs FN BHP…and the subsequent 4 (at very least) out of 5 previously posted FN BHPs, have to do with OPs FN BHP? What does posting a pic of an FEG copy have to do with OPs FN BHP? What does injecting the Kareen into the discussion have to do OPs FN BHP? What does erroneously suggesting CZ manufactured Israeli BHPs have to do with a discussion of OPs FN BHP?

Simple; it’s all part of a very typical forum DISCUSSION…yes, even the erroneous and mistaken posts. No one has gone off topic with “the 9mm is for girly men” or “Glock is the ONLY true path” posts, we ARE on topic…we’re discussing the BHP.

AND, if allowing that erroneous and mistaken posts are just a fact of life in such discussions, so is respectfully correcting those erroneous and mistaken posts…with verifiable correct information.

Even posting discredited old wives tales such as; “FN was plagued with cracked barrels straight from the factory”…compounded by posting…and relying upon, a pic that actually disproves the old wives tale, and all that followed…unfortunately, are all too often part of such forum discussions.

In fact, even though…and specifically because, the old wives tale has to do with OPs FN BHP and such old wives tales can be damaging to FN BHP owners understanding of their pistols in general, I’d say they…and of course then the corrections, have more to do with OPs FN BHP than FIE or CZ.

Or…WADR, is it preferable to just ignore erroneous/mistaken Browning Hi Power Handgun information posted here…on the Browning Hi Power Handgun sub-forum?

Enjoy your Sunday Stephen…

UR most welcome my friend, glad it illustrated the point sufficiently to be convincing.

FWIW...the late Stephen Camp's blog is a great BHP information source.

Re: WADR; I've found that when trying to put together a response that "corrects" someone and/or where there might be some disagreement, including the WADR reminds me that forceful expression in defense of your point doesn't have to be disrespectful. Sometimes I fail miserably though .

I've only got one Tok and thankfully it's had no issues...but in all honesty I infrequently shoot it nowadays . Thanks for pics though .

Truth be told W1...though I've shot Toks occasionally/recreationally in the past, they were bring-backs owned by friends. The reason I finally picked one up myself...a Chinese import with the useless rotating safety , was strictly for ballistic demos of body armor...that was 16 years ago. Last I shot mine was about 5 years ago during pre-deployment prep...the USG told us the host was still using Toks as a secondary sidearm. It ended up being unnecessary as the team we worked with all had CZ99s.

I'm sure you're more familiar with the Tok my friend...as evidenced by your post/pics. I do like the 1911-ish 3 hole trigger you've done , though honestly the flash suppressor is not my cup of tea . Thanks for the additional pics .

BTW, on an FN BHP note...keeping on topic you know , before he passed away just a few years ago Steve Camp wrote "The Shooter's Guide to the Browning Hi Power"...THE BHP end-users Bible. I believe it's still available from Steve's widow. Over the past 30+ years I've accumulated every high-end BHP reference book there is, but Steve's book goes with me everywhere I go...I keep it in my ruck.